Movies are a foundation of nerddom. No matter what kind of a nerd you are, there's at least one movie you love passionately that a lot of other people also love passionately.
And then there are movies that we either hate passionately, or dismiss.
Here's the thing: some of these movies really are absolutely awful. But others are genuinely good in their own right, and worth revisiting once the white-hot nerd rage has cooled a bit. Sometimes a movie is good, or at least acceptable, on its own merits, and enjoyable once you get over it.
Also, for the five of you that haven't seen these, spoilers, but they've been out for years, decades in some cases, so no whining in the comments.
There are a few sticks you can beat this one with. Willie is shrill, although no less annoying and useless than Marion when you stop to think about it: pretty much Marion's entire love from the fandom stems from punching Indy once, but the rest of the movie, she's basically baggage, a tradition that extends through all the Indy movies until "Last Crusade", when the love interest turns out not just to be a pain in the ass but evil. Also, the Indian government was right to be angry: "Temple" can be pretty racist, although pretty much the whole franchise has this problem.
Still, it is, to date, the one movie where Indy actually grows and changes as a person, going from a self-involved jerk to Hero with a capital H (people forget: this is a prequel). There is not a person alive who didn't cheer when Indy hit a child slaver so hard he landed and slid. The setpieces are some of the best of the entire franchise, and the darker aspects actually make the movie work.
It's not "Raiders", but it's not trying to be. "Temple of Doom" is actual, honest-to-God pulp fiction in film form with the budget to sell it as actually happening.
image courtesy Paramount Pictures
As we've mentioned before, it's hard to make a good Punisher movie. This, however, comes the closest, partially because of the profoundly nasty and evil plot.
It helps to realize that this is basically a Jacobean revenge tragedy. It's true that Frank in the comics would storm the Saint nightclub and kill every mofo in the place (something he does actually do, and something fans seem to have forgotten), but this version of Frank is actually a lot nastier and bloodthirstier, carefully setting up the bad guy who killed his family to murder most of his own before burning his house to the ground, calmly revealing how he'd set the guy up all along, and then tying him to a car and lighting him on fire before blowing him up.
Then there's the scene with the Russian, a great bit of both action and comedic timing that a lot of Marvel movies took notes on.
Also helping is that this Frank is a psychological mess, something a lot of fans didn't want to see but, let's face it, even in the comics, Frank is nuts. Of course the movie chose to make him nuts in a way people could relate to, instead of a creepy sociopath. And it works; if you or I had our entire family gunned down in front of us, rage, depression and alcoholism are way more likely than stone-faced badassery.
image courtesy Lionsgate
All the prequels are unnecessary. We don't need this movie. But if we had to have this movie, at least it doesn't suck wildly.
Lucas' belief that Darth Vader is the ultimate hero of the franchise is pretty questionable, but at least the script does its best to explain exactly what the hell's going on in Vader's head. Yes, the scenes of meetings are boring: meetings are not compelling, and it's a little depressing Lucas thinks they are compelling, kind of like how Toho has to start every damn Godzilla movie with a press conference.
But there's so much plot here, and so few miserably stupid decisions, that this movie is genuinely worth watching more than once. Which is more than we can say for the other prequels. Or "Jedi", depending on our mood and how many Ewoks we've shot in the various licensed games.
image courtesy Lucasfilm
The Star Trek movies have a checkered history: they've largely been defined by the presence of Nicholas Meyer, a Victoriana fan and largely known as a screenwriter and novelist. Whenever he's been missing, and by a funny coincidence, he's never done an odd-numbered "Star Trek" movie or a TNG movie, his loss has been generally been felt.
And most of the odd-numbered movies suck. "The Motion Picture" has been made less awful by Robert Wise returning and actually getting a chance to edit it, but it still stinks. "Star Trek V" is actually highly entertaining...as a bad episode of "Star Trek". But "Star Trek III" is actually pretty good.
Yes, Doc Brown as a Klingon wasn't the best casting choice; Nimoy doesn't have the verve as a director that Meyer does, and Harve Bennett's screenplay is awkward at times.
But if "V" is a bad Star Trek episode, "III" is a good one, writ large: characters make hard choices, deal with the emotional pain of a lost friend, and everybody gets at least one moment to shine, whether it's Sulu finally allowed to kick some ass; DeForrest Kelley showing off his acting chops, as well as McCoy getting one of the single funniest and truest lines in the entire franchise ("This is his revenge! For all those arguments he lost!"); or Scotty's heart breaking as he watches the Enterprise fall from the sky.
Also, it's aged a lot better than "Star Trek IV". And Nicholas Meyer was brought in to save that one!
image courtesy Paramount Pictures
Here's a question for you: why is Bruce Banner always on the verge of completely losing it?
Seriously, this guy is a bubbling cauldron of anger all the time. The littlest thing will send him flying into a fury so intense he has biochemical reactions that turn him into a monster. He's blown a fuse over some incredibly petty crap.
This guy has problems. And Ang Lee's movie tried to address why he had those problems.
People got furious Lee played fast and loose with the Hulk's origin, but realistically, he had to. When the Hulk was created, we just didn't understand radiation the way we do now: modern audiences would have laughed at his comics origin. And, yes, it took forty minutes for us to see the Hulk, but so what? Most of the movie is essentially the Hulk trashing a military base, San Francisco, and Nick Nolte, in that order. People who complained about how it wasn't "true" to the comic seem to have missed the Hulk, in the desert, trashing tanks, is as true to the comic as it gets.
Along the way, though, Lee did something that action movies rarely do; give the action sequences genuine meaning beyond "hitting this guy really hard". He also worked with Eric Bana to get a really great performance; especially if you've known people who grew up in abusive households, he nails the passive-aggressive, non-assertive nature they can develop. Not to mention using the Hulk as a metaphor for the fear of many abuse survivors that they will turn into an abuser themselves.
In other words, he made a movie you can watch as a straight action movie, or a movie that can actually be read as a metaphor. It's a level of work we haven't seen from Marvel since, and that's just too bad.
image courtesy Universal Pictures
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Cannot agree more with all but the Search for Spock. I hated it when I saw it and I still hate it today. Even though Temple of Doom is the one I watch the least, it has some of the most memorable moments in the entire franchise. The dinner scene alone is worth the entire movie.
A friend actually pinged me on Facebook and pointed out that also Short Round is the least irritating kid sidekick in the history of media, even with those awful one-liners. And I will confess, I love all the Indy movies, even Crystal Skull. A bad Indy movie is still generally leaps and bounds ahead of most franchises.
Ang Lee’s the Hulk was an awful, awful movie. The Hulk himself looked terrible, and the story didn’t make any sense. I put it up there with Superman Returns for worst comic book film.
Obviously, I disagree. It’s a meaty film, and I think its reputation is going to grow as time passes.
I disagree too, it was certainly better than Norton’s CGI fuckastrophy. But three separate Hollywood treatments in 10 years? Eric Bana, Ed Norton, *and* Mark Ruffalo? Too much.
never understood the hatred for returns. good movie.
My only problem with the Hulk movie was the “epic” finish of the climactic fight was Hulk yelling at a lake. Emotion and motivations are all well and good, but in a Hulk movie I expect some smashing to close things out.
Waterworld. You forgot Waterworld. I love Waterworld.
You and only you my friend.
“Waterworld” isn’t bad for what it is, but it’s not really memorable, either. Aside from the piss scene. That’s memorable.
I would put “The Phantom” on my list. A bit light in the story, sure, but at least we got a hero that enjoyed what he did and didn’t suffer from the grim ‘n gritties. It was fun movie.
I also liked “Hulk” well enough, and enjoyed ST III when I re-watched it recently – which surprised me.
I prefer “The Shadow” myself, as ridiculous as it is, but otherwise I found myself agreeing with the entire list.
I like the pulpy, light atmosphere of “The Phantom”, and I even think well of “The Shadow”. That said, they’re both very much what Hollywood thought a “comic book movie” was in the mid-90s. I’d like to see a reboot of “The Shadow”, but leave “The Phantom” for dead after that terrible SyFy “reboot.”
I think a well-done miniseries or movie based on the Last Phantom from Dynamite Comics would work pretty well.
I’m just going to say this: Batman Forever.
Granted, its a veicle for joel schumacher for making a “ambiguously gay duo” movie but there is ALOT that the studio take away off the original cut.
Search for the “Red Book Edition” and you’ll see a really good movie.
A friend of mine worked in SFX back in that day and was in and around Rick Baker’s shop during the filming and he says the original Two-Face makeup was disgustingly great, then WB stepped in and said “Nope, gay it up.” Also he ran into a giant bat in storage that was supposed to play a bigger part in flashbacks and nearly pissed himself it was so detailed.
I actually just saw “Hulk” for the first time this weekend, and really didn’t understand what everyone had been bitching about years ago, I liked it. Hell of a lot better than Transformers!
“Waterworld! I don’t know what all the fuss was about, I saw it 3 times, it RULED!”
The Punisher was a great movie in my opinion. I really loved it. But then again I rarely come across a movie that I hate. I can pretty much enjoy any movie just so long as it isn’t a stupid romantic comedy or something like that. I see all these movies that people just get so worked up about and I shake my head and think “wow, it must suck to be such a sad angry person.”
Episode 3? This list just shat itself.
Guys, it’s “we nerds”, not “us nerds”
sincerely,
a grammar nerd
Wienereds?
No. You are wrong. And it was Punisher:Warzone that was actually good not that piece of shit first one. And in Temple the 2 sidekicks were so incredibly annoying that no other feature of the movie could provide enough saving grace. Also the Ed Norton Hulk was probably better than the Ang Lee one.
The Ed Norton Hulk movie is a better “HULK SMASH” movie, but Lee’s Hulk is a better movie.
What didn’t you like about Punisher? Depth?
Hulk is a well made and looks nice, but it has like, 10-minutes of actual Hulk in what feels like a 3-hour movie. Also we don’t see Jennifer Connelly’s boobs — not even once.
Punisher is dull and badly cast. John Travolta at his Travoltiest worst as the villain.
I’d agree with the rest though (even though Indy 2 scared my poor little mind when I first watched it at the age of 7 or 8).
Temple of Doom is severely underrated. If you find Short Round annoying, take another look at every child sidekick you’ve ever encountered. Yeah, he really is that much better. Love that movie, even with Willie Scott involved.
Punisher probably would have been received much better had it simply taken place in NYC. Putting it in Miami irked a lot of geeks, and never underestimate the hate that churns within a scorned nerd.
Hulk had a lot of good ideas, but using Hulk dogs was a bit much and the climax, while not difficult to follow, was so muddled and obtuse it had no power. But crazy Nick Nolte is always good, and he was batshit in this one.
Saying that Short Round is the least annoying kid sidekick is like saying you only have a little herpes.
Great call on Hulk. Very underrated and leaps and bounds better than the norton version.
Of these, Punisher exceeded my expectations, Search for Spock delivered on them, and the rest all failed pitifully.
Interesting list, but there is no way Star Trek III is better than IV. I’m sorry, no. I will grant you that you need the events of III to even be able to pull off IV, but that doesn’t make it better.
“I…have HAD…enough of…YOU!”
I like Temple of Doom better than Raiders of the Lost Ark. I pretend Kingdom of the Crystal Skull didn’t happen, and think the Indiana Jones saga got better as the movies were made. Last Crusade being the best.
Revenge of the Sith is the best of the prequels, but still sucks compared to the first three Star Wars movies.
All those other movies you suggested suck donkey balls.
Never understood the hatred for Temple of Doom (Hearts being ripped out! Rope bridge climax!)
Episode III was pretty much the movie we were holding out for since Ep I.
The Punisher isn’t great, but better than it’s credited for. I give Tom Jane a universal pass for his amazing turn in Boogie Nights.
Never seen Search for Spock.
I appreciate the idea behind the first Hulk, but was waaaay too talky for the subject material.
Yeah, I love Temple of Doom. HORA! HURA! HORA-HURA! *bong, bong* My best friend and I quote that shizz all the time. And I think I agree with you, Dan, that Short Round is one of the least annoying, most likable kid-sidekick characters in action movie history. However, I refuse to believe that Kate Capshaw wasn’t a huge step down from Karen Allen. BTW, how is it a prequel? I’ve never picked up on that. *waves goodbye to nerd cred*
I was pretty disappointed with Episode III after all the hype before its release said that it was great, and finally got on track, when in fact it was still loaded with problems. But over time, I’ve learned to really like it. It’s certainly the closest anybody in those prequels came to good acting, and the final linkage of the two trilogies was pretty well done. Also the “Order 66″ scene always brings me close to tears… fucking John Williams!
Search For Spock has Christopher Lloyd and William Shatner in the same film, so I can’t hate it (I didn’t think there was anything wrong with that casting). In fact, I would say it’s the second-best odd-numbered Trek, behind Generations (yeah, yeah, killing Kirk, I know…), and not counting Trek 11.
Similarly, Hulk has Jennifer Connelly in it, so I can’t hate it. Even if it were a bad movie, which it isn’t, that woman makes anything watchable. Though I must confess I’ve never watched the whole thing from start to finish; I’ve only caught large chunks of it over the course of several viewings on cable. But what I have seen, I’ve liked, in terms of character and general atmosphere. I imagine that film would probably do better with critics now than it did then, since we now have more superhero movies under our collective belt.
Never seen The Punisher, and I’m pretty sure I never will, having no interest in the character in any medium.
So you don’t have a huge problem with a guy becoming a mass murderer (starting with a group of children) because some pedo tells him his pregnant senator wife might die, yanno, instead of finding a decent ob-gyn in a society where faster than light travel, digitally transmitting dna data over a lady bic, and ASSEMBLY LINE HUMAN CLONING is ubiquitous?
Maybe Palpatine cut the Senate healthcare plan to pay for his war.
Yeah the whole “died of a broken heart” kinda reeked of BS.
Better: Palpatine poisons her, intends it to kill her baby as well, they survive because they’re magical Force babies. MUCH MORE PLAUSIBLE.
Think about the movie for a minute: does Anakin, at ANY point, demonstrate ANY ability to stop, think clearly, and take stock of the situation?
Yes. In the Jedi Temple in Episode 3. When he takes out the pee-wees.
The only thing that I enjoyed about Revenge of the Sith was the review by Mr. Plinkett of Red Letter Media. All three of the Star Wars prequels were disappointing.
Ang Lee’s The Hulk was the only comic book movie I’ve fallen asleep during. The pacing was painfully slow,. It did shine in some of the action scenes (hulk dogs especially) but not enough to redeem the entire flick. “The Incredible Hulk” was a far more light-hearted film.
God, I’m so tired of people bashing Episodes 1-3. It’s just so ridiculous at this point.
Like Jar-Jar ridiculous? Or like Hold Me Like You Held Me On Naboo ridiculous?
Punisher and Star Trek 3 aside (because I’ve never seen them), I’m on board with the list. Temple is my wife’s favorite Indy movie and the first one I ever saw. Hulk is a great movie but not really a great comic book movie. Finally, as much as I hate to admit it, I liked all the prequels. I know they aren’t great movies but fuck it, I love Star Wars.
Awesome to see The Punisher on this list. But uh.. which Hulk movie is that again?
I’m happy to hear that someone besides me liked Ang Lee’s Hulk. Lee was why I went to see it. With him directing you knew it wouldn’t be a traditional superhero movie. Except for the giant poodle, it was pretty awesome.
I get all the Star Trek movies confused, except for Wrath of Khaaaan. If it was the movie with the whales and hippie Spock, or if it was the one where teenage Spock has to sex up Vulcan Kirstie Alley, then I liked it.
No one will ever sell me on the Anakin fiascoes. The simplest question I have, are they carbon based humanoids? How can you fight directly over molten lava and not just burn to death from that? Was the frikking Force shielding their bodies? Wait, don’t answer, I don’t really want to know.
I loved loved LOVED the 04′ Punisher with Thomas Jane. We need to bring him back and NOT put him in effing’ SPACE>
Verified
I don’t now if this qualifies for the list, but why don’t the Short Circuit movies get more love? Personally, I thought the second was better than the first. Sure it didn’t have Steve Gutenberg, but life’s unfair sometimes.
Hulk and The Punisher… If we could mix the firsts reflective scenes with the action of the seconds, we would be talking.
By seconds I mean the sequels, not mixing Punisher with Hulk. That would be insane. Or is it?!