
And you'd know, ladies, because...?
If you want to pick a fight on the Internet among entitled white people, there’s really nothing better than circumcision.
Seriously. People care about this. People care about this a lot. And we’re about to see this online pissing match erupt again since the American Academy of Pediatrics has announced they’re pro-tip-removal.
Here’s the thing: A lot of the arguments for and against are built on some pretty awful assumptions about people instead of anything resembling science.
Let’s start with what this really boils down to: that circumcision can help reduce the risk of getting an STI. This is absolutely true. The problem is that people are treating this as a magic bullet and not analyzing their own assumptions.
I mean, I get it. You hear “Men with foreskins have a higher chance of getting HIV” which is technically true, although the reality has been greatly exaggerated, or that circumcised men have a fifteen percent lower chance of getting prostate cancer due to sexually transmitted diseases, and, being a new parent, you freak out.
Of course, nobody ever stops to point out the obvious: Namely, that any disadvantage a foreskin may offer can be pretty effectively mitigated by, oh, I don’t know, using condoms. You know, condoms? The most effective method of preventing STI transmission among men bar abstinence? Those things men engaged in an active sex life need to be using? Those?
That’s really the thing. It’s one thing to point this out for a population that is opposed to condoms. Nearly all the circumcision studies about HIV have been conducted in Africa, where getting the population to use condoms has been difficult to say the least due to cultural conflicts. It’s not really worth getting into here, but suffice to say, the West has not done a great job of bothering to understand African concerns about, well, anything.
It’s quite another thing to argue that Westerners can’t convince people who are members of their own culture to use condoms. Here in the US, the problem seems to be that most people believe that men just stone-cold will hump anything with no regard for their health, because everybody knows the penis turns off a man’s brain and becomes a orifice seeking missile once erect with a loathing of condoms. There’s totally a kill switch in the base of the penis.
In other words, rather than teach our young men to not act like total @$$holes with a disregard for the health and safety of both themselves and others, we might as well just reduce their STI risk any way we can up front and, even better, tell them this, so they’ll engage in sexually risky behavior with no protection. Call me crazy but I’m not sure that’s such a great argument.
Meanwhile, once you leave out the bigots in the anti-circumcision crowd (remember, Jewish and Muslim faiths both practice circumcision), you’re left with… well, basically people pissed off they were circumcised as babies. The big argument is that circumcision “reduces sensation”, but frankly, I’d like to know where that data comes from. It seems to be an assumption more than anything else. It’s not like these guys know from personal experience.
There are also arguments that it violates human rights, which would make sense if you had a human right to a flap of skin, which you don’t. The only really reasonable argument is that it’s an unnecessary medical procedure and if you’re concerned about it, why not let your kid make his own decision instead of making it for him?
If you’re wondering, I come down firmly on the side of “It doesn’t matter”. There’s no really compelling science either way. There are billions of men walking around with shields up and shields down and neither have a health problem that can be directly tied to having a foreskin.
In short, let’s have some sanity and intelligence in this Internet argument. Please?




Holy fuck, the blonde is my exgirlfriend.
If you’re serious, I have several relevant follow-up questions for you.
You are yanking my chain.
Fire away, Dux.
Melissa Joan Hart is your ex-girlfriend? Do you role-play “Sabrina the Teenage Witch and Harvey her Dorky Boyfriend”? Or “Clarissa and…whoever” (sorry, I never watched that show).
“If you’re wondering, I come down firmly on the side of “It doesn’t matter”.”
Cool. By all means post about it then.
I guess I don’t miss what I never had – never remember having, to be more precise – and I don’t really care. Not pissed at my parents for cuttin’ on me, figure it’s one less thing to wash.
For an insightful, surprising, and informative response to the American Academy of Pediatrics report on circumcision, see [www.circumcision.org] .
You ever want to get into it with a bunch of Belief Nazis, go wander into some message board related to circumcision or vaccinations. My wife has been perusing lately and asked a question about the cost of vaccination that turned into the opening of Saving Private Ryan. The best part is–no one answered her specific question.
I agree with the it doesn’t matter. Met plenty of women pro/con on this and never really thought that the “loss of sensation” applied. One point I have to disagree with. “Here in the US, the problem seems to be that most people believe that men just stone-cold will hump anything with no regard for their health, because everybody knows the penis turns off a man’s brain and becomes a orifice seeking missile once erect with a loathing of condoms.”
This actually seems to be true. If you look at the pregnancy rate and the rising STD rates then you might actually wonder if ANYONE is using a condom. Many men have fallen down on thier responsibility to raise children, at the least we can do is not make them. “No glove no love” should be words to live by not “unless she won’t let me.” (If this is the case then they cut off more then just the tip bitch.)
The AAP are way out of line with other national medical organizations, and it’s very disappointing that they say this:
“Parents are entitled to factually correct, nonbiased information about circumcision”
but they provide information that is both biased and highly selective. They simply don’t seem to consider that the foreskin might actually be valuable.
It’s really easy to find circumcised doctors who are against circumcision, but surprisingly difficult to find male doctors in favor who weren’t circumcised themselves as children.
How strange that all the health benefits the AAP claim don’t seem to exist in Europe, where almost no-one circumcises unless they’re Jewish or Muslim.
The AAP is the same organization that changed its policy on female cutting in 2010 btw saying “It might be more effective if federal and state laws enabled pediatricians to reach out to families by offering a ritual [clitoral] nick as a possible compromise to avoid greater harm.”
They were forced to retract this about six weeks later.
Dr Diekema, the chair of the committee said “We’re talking about something far less extensive than the removal of foreskin in a male”.
I suppose it’s a good thing they didn’t look at operating on girls to prevent breast cancer. 11% of women get breast cancer, and 3% die of it, so the health benefits to the girls would massively outweigh the risks.
Meanwhile, other national health organizations including the Canadian Paediatric Society and the Dutch Medical Association continue to recommend *against* circumcising newborns.
See, comments like this are why people make fun of you.
/dick joke
i uh thought this was a sci-fi blog…
Let’s say, just for the moment, that we are talking about cyborg circumcision. Does that help?
It is modification of humans through technology.
Makes total sense now, thanks PPR!
RYA’C: Father, I am aware of the ways between a man and a woman.
TEAL’C: Good. Then you are prepared for the Rite of Or’nok. (Rya’c looks horrified.)
RYA’C: Surely it is not still expected?
TEAL’C (looking very serious): On the first eve of shim’owa. My advice is that the knife be as sharp as possible.
RYA’C (staring at him in dread): Perhaps Kar’yn is right. Not all of the old traditions are worth holding on to.
(Teal’c looks at his son seriously for a moment, then his face breaks into a grin.)
TEAL’C: Indeed.
“In short, let’s have some sanity and intelligence in this Internet argument. Please?”
Good one dude.
Oh and BTW I had a circumcision for medical reasons (phimosis) and it does not “reduce sensation” what so ever.
But since you had phimosis, you had sub-optimal sensation before you started.
Can we call the anti-circumcision nazis ‘foreskinheads’?
Yea but then they’re just gonna carve tiny swastikas in there and we’re back to square one.
Yes. Yes we can.
good one
Has Godwin’s Law been repealed round here?
They brand men like a herd of cows. American men are such wimps to let their sons be subjected to this absurd surgery. If it were women tied down & cut, the Feminists would be howling all over the world. The male genitals are a cheap commodity. There is no argument too absurd for the circumcisers. They insult the appearance of the intact penis, claim that circumcision heals everything from body warts to HIV, and draw an illogical distinction between female & male genitals. Circumcision is the mark of a slave, my friends.
Top Ten Tortures Less Painful Than Circumcision
10. Get knocked out by Mohammed Ali.
9. Pull out your fingernails.
8. Eat a pile of steaming bear crap.
7. Skin yourself alive.
6. Fall into a vat of molten iron.
5. Get run over by a train.
4. Go through a sausage grinder.
3. Saw off your legs.
2. Poke out your eyes.
1. Go To Hell
~Dick-Scalper
Wow. Just wow. You make birthers look positively sane.
It DOES matter.
Hundreds of thousands of men are enduring a tedious multi-year process of non-surgical foreskin restoration to undo just some of circumcision’s damage.
Leave him intact. He’ll thank you. Foreskin feels REALLY good.
Can’t tell if trolling genius or clinically insane …
How about someone who knows what he’s talking about? HIS body, HIS choice.
I’ve seen an uncircumcised penis…no thanks.
Exactly, to hell with all those arguments from both sides, the real point is that no son of mine gonna walk around with a creepy dog dork like some damn dirty European!
“There are also arguments that it violates human rights, which would make sense if you had a human right to a flap of skin, which you don’t.”
Why don’t you have the right to your own body? That is kind of the definition of “human rights”.
If someone came and tried to take a chunk of your skin, don’t you think you have a right to stop them?
Seems kind of ignorant.
I think we should cut off the ears of all the Americans in the Tour de France to lower wind resistance and cut a few grams of dead weight. They don’t serve any purpose, right?
We need a scientific trial… First every parent who has twins or quintuplet males must have one cut one uncut… every 5 years interview and test them. Only then can we put this to rest.
Lol @ elephant trunks
Farthammer: You realise you’re laughing at most of the men of Europe, South and Central America, the British Commonwealth, and Asia. Just about the only non-American’s you’re NOT laughing at are Muslims and tribal Africans.