Warner Bros. may, or may not, be making Justice League. Much depends on the success of the upcoming Man of Steel. But even if that movie is a massive hit, making a Justice League movie shouldn’t be in the cards for a while. Here’s why.
The Real Money Is In Vertigo
DC has been doing gangbusters in the comic book movie gold rush, but most of it isn’t from the DCU. Instead, it’s been movies like Constantine, A History Of Violence, V For Vendetta, Watchmen, and so on.
So, why try to shift gears? The solo superhero movies DC has produced, outside of Batman, have been sparse and generally seen as awful. However you feel about the movies listed above, you’ve got to admit, they’re a lot better than Steel and Catwoman.
The DC Universe Does Better Artistically With Standalone Movies
The Superman franchise brought comic book adaptations from utter cheese to big-budget film spectaculars. 1989′s Batman defined the ’90s blockbuster for better or worse and was one of the biggest pop culture events of its day. The Dark Knight was so popular and its snubbing at the Oscars for major categories actually forced a change in Academy rules.
That’s a pretty strong history, right there. Why risk it with an Avengers cash-in?
There Are Plenty Of Other Teams To Use
And if we want to build a persistent DCU in film, and want to have a team… why start with the Justice League?
Bringing a team like the Suicide Squad or the Teen Titans to the screen would actually make more sense. True, they don’t have the “marketability” of a Wonder Woman or a Superman, but it would give DC and Warner Brothers more creative latitude. Consider that the Marvel curse was broken by Blade, of all things.
The Rest Of The Team Isn’t As Marketable As Warner Bros. Thinks
That doesn’t mean people don’t recognize Wonder Woman or Green Lantern, but they don’t care about them. Warner Bros. has struggled for years to launch a Wonder Woman TV show, and Green Lantern’s movie, while it has its virtues, was hardly what you call a hit.
The solution to this is not to stuff them into a team movie. It’s to build them up gradually.
A Justice League Movie Needs More Time
The Avengers was not built in a day. It’s the culmination of Marvel constructing a very specific production process built around its intellectual property. It’s also a director-focused process; while no director at Marvel Studios has had final cut, they’ve been selected because they’re proven, talented, and have a specific voice.
DC doesn’t currently have a process like this built at Warner Bros., and to have a movie that grosses as much as The Avengers will need it. That’s going to require a couple of dry runs.
So, let’s not rush into a Justice League movie. Besides, is it so wrong to want to see a Suicide Squad movie first?
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I still maintain that the reason Marvel was able to pull off Avengers was because they got Robert Downey Jr as Tony Stark. If Ryan Reynolds were allowed to be more like the Hal Jordan he should have been, that’s the star you build this movie team around. I love JGL with all my nerd-heart, but no way he has the same draw in this situation.
I mean, Marvel was probably doing the Avengers regardless, I’m just saying. RDJ as ultimate badass helped get better actors around him.
It did, absolutely.
Although, if they were to make a Justice League movie, I would only see it if Tim Daly and Nathan Fillion reprise their roles from the web short and Bruce Greenwood dropped by with NPH. Now that I think about it, why the eff don’t they just cast the voice talent as the actual superheroes?
Honestly, even if they let him loose, I think Ryan Reynolds would have been a better Wally West.
Honestly the reason that the GL movie failed was because it was poorly executed pretty much across the board.
I’m not as knowledgeable on Wally West, so I can’t really speak to that. But I do absolutely agree that the film suffered from writers fatigue. I got a copy of the script from an internship and Hal was drastically scaled back as a smart ass in the finished film. That’s the only reason I say that.
The movies do well when the villian is good. Green Lantern was stupid because the villain was a puff of smoke just like how Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer sucked because Galactus was a puff of smoke. Ving Rames sucked as King PIn, Super Man was never in real peril against Lex Luthor.
Did someone just try to critique comic book movies and refer to a “Super Man”?
DC, don’t even bother, you are completely screwed.
/also, Michael Clarke Duncan.
The reason GL failed is because Hal Jordan and his life is a shallow 11-year-old’s idea of a dream life…and that’s BEFORE he gets the ring. Hal Jordan is a fighter pilot who gets hot chicks while sitting in front of the TV dribbling beer on his six-pack abs. Throwing in Maverick’s daddy issues doesn’t make him a character anyone should be expected to give a shit about. Hal Jordan’s classic depiction is essentially a cardboard cutout.
Make the audience care about the secret identity, they will care about the movie. Peter Parker and Bruce Wayne are defined by tragedy. Steve Rogers was a sickly shrimp. Downey’s Stark oozed personality. Even Clark Kent has issues with which normal people can identify.
But no one gave a shit about Hal Jordan, or Elektra, or Matt Murdock, and Thor and Bruce Banner got by on the Marvel Films rep…Daddy issues alone don’t make people care about perfect-looking physical specimens who can do backflips off of skyscrapers or lift up tanks with their pinky.
Writing, writing, writing. If they’d gone with the FULL “Emerald Dawn” version of Hal, they’d have had a deeper character. He’s still the cocky pilot trying to live up to his dad’s memory. But he also deals with the loss of his father through drinking too much, fighting, and generally being a grade A dick. His recklessness leads to all kinds of strife in his life, culminating with the drunk driving crash that hospitalizes friends (and his brother). One friend is ultimately killed by Legion, who is seeking Hal.
THIS is the best iteration of Hal. And it sets the stage for the whole Parallax (the real version) thing so many years later. If Hal is done right, he’s far from a cardboard cutout. He’s a complex, tragic character.
“writing writing writing” was directed at the screenwriters, not at you, pork. If they’d get writers who understand and give a shit about characters like Hal, the movies would be so much better.
I really enjoyed Constantine, I thought it was one of the better movies to ever come from DC and you’re totally on point that the good stuff has been coming out of Vertigo. A Suicide Squad movie is what Warner Bros should focusing on as an anti-Avengers project, not trying to do the same thing but with a fraction of the foresight and planning that Marvel has shown.
While we’re spit-balling DC movies, I personally would love to see a Lars Von Trier directed Invisibles film. I bet that would be fucking nuts.
Constantine is one of my guilty pleasures. Yeah it didn’t adhere completely to the source material, but I thought Keanu Reeves did at least get the basic concept of the character right (you know, besides being British or looking like Sting) and whatever else at least the movie gave a decent B Movie vibe.
I couldn’t agree more. I kept saying to myself, “hang on. That’s Gavin Rossdale? Really?”
Plus hell looked awesome and the demons were cool.
Really enjoyed Constantine as well. Me and my buddy still refer fondly to the “Brass Knuckles of Christ”
DC shouldn’t be trying to compete with Marvel, that has never been an idea that’s worked for them. Like Constantine and the other perfect examples Dan mentioned, they should focus on story-driven Vertigo type properties where they don’t have to pump a ton of cash/risk into them. Suicide Squad, Doom Patrol, Deadman etc…
I mean how fucking good would 100 Bullets or Human Target be if they gave it to Nicolas Winding Refn or Joe Carnahan? Those kinda films dont need bloated budgets and marketing and they could have the kinda critical success that Dredd enjoyed but with none of the baggage that kept it from financial success.
“Constantine” was faithful in spirit, but not letter. On the other hand, that one sight gag during the finale (and if you’ve seen the movie, you know what I’m talking about) is faithful in both and damn near perfect.
Shit, it’s been a while so I don’t remember. Hmm,I guess I know what we’re watching for movie time tonight.
I think what Dan is referring to involves dragging. And then not dragging. And then curing.
They should do a batman inc movie
Eh, I agree you shouldn’t rush a movie but DC needs to do something to sustain their movie franchises besides reboots. It would make sense to roll out with movies for “The Trinity” before a JLA movie (heck, that’s what Marvel did), but they honestly I think it would be good enough to do something along the lines of a live-action adaptation Secret Origins and still come out pretty well.
Or do some of their alternate universe kind of stuff. The Dark Knight Returns, if adapted faithfully, would be a BITCHIN’ (yes, I said it) live action. As would Kingdom Come.
I think another major problem they have is the script which is ridiculous, not that a JLA movie is something that can easily pumped out, but that they have the talent to write one already. Get Bruce Timm and crew in there on writing chores.
Also I think Batman shouldn’t get another solo movie for a while. Let Nolan’s Epic be it for now. What I think they should do is a “Bat-Family” movie. Get Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, maybe Huntress or Batwoman in there.
I’ve also said, I would LOVE a fucking Nightwing movie. Partially, because he’s one of my favorite characters in the DCU, partially because he’s perfect for the silver screen.
Nightwing would be a fine film character. But you’d have to get past a studio going “well, wait, audiences never took Robin seriously. Isn’t he just Robin with a dark costume? CAN’T WE JUST MAKE ANOTHER BATMAN?”
Yeah It’s really simple to give Nightwing his own movie. The first arc of Chuck Dixon’s run where he moves to Bludhaven. Boom. Easy. Besides it’s easy to explain to moviegoers who he is. He’s Robin, all grown up and out on his own. That’s all you really need to know.
Here are two team movie ideas that could work better than Justice League, especially using JL to launch most of the heroes:
Secret Six
Metal Men
You’re welcome, DC.
Metal Men is supposedly on the way.
They shouldn’t rush a Justice League movie because the non-Superman DC characters need to show the average moviegoer why they even need anybody besides Superman. The Avengers worked because none of those heroes alone were all-powerful. Hulk can kick the god-like Hulk’s ass but, even with Banner having better control, he can still lose it.
It may not be breaking new ground, but they should absolutely copy the MCU’s format leading up to a Justice League movie to showcase what each of these heroes can bring to the table on their own.
I take incredible offense to the comment about Green Lantern having its virtues. C’MON!
I still want a Lobo movie. He rules.
made for Halloween
A few years ago there was a movie floating around, can’t remember the title, but it would star Green Arrow in a prison for super villains. The story sounded awesome. The super villains and Green Arrow could then go on to appear in other films. If they wear a mask, or are CGI or whatever they need to do, they don’t even have to worry about keeping the actors consistent. This would allow for little connections here and there. The movies could then stay as stand alone films and not necessarily build up to anything larger than they are, while still sharing a universe full of characters and heroes without needing to rely on one actor or director or a shared narratives.
In this capacity, a Justice League franchise could exist without interfering with a Wonder Woman, Flash or Batman franchise and then the movies would function more like DC comics itself does. At Marvel, what happens in Dare Devil #5 could be addressed in Spider-Man #7 and then resolved in Wolverine #10. While crossovers certainly happen at DC, they’re fewer and far between and are usually relegated to a particular family (The Bat family, Super family, Green Lantern Corp. etc.) It made perfect sense for the stories established in Iron Man 2, Captain America and Thor to culminate in The Avengers. But DC doesn’t function that way, and shouldn’t in the films either.
But that’s just my two cents.
Great article a lot of good points, I very much agree. Good responses, at least the ones I read were. I think since DC has the licensing and Jim Lee in their corner they should do an adaptation of the original 4 issues (the ones from the 90s) of the ‘WILDcats’ comics. Still to this day, I think those were the best 4 issues of a comic series (miniseries, saga, or what ever, just not meaning stand alone issues) I have ever read. Peter Drinklage as Lord Imp, Charlie Hunnam as Grifter, Megan Fox as Voodoo, Jared Padelicki as Warblade, Dulph Lundgren as Spartan (as Wizard magazine said he should be casted as 10 years ago), Gina Carano as Zealot,and Michael Cera as Maul.
The last point is the most important. If you’re a Warner Bros exec, you can’t just watch The Avengers and then decided that you will go on a weekend cocaine bender and have a JL movie ready to film on Monday. It doesn’t make any sense. There needs to be a build up. Introduce the characters in their own movie and then have a JL film where people actually give a damn. Put a contemporary twist on the characters that seem outdated and people will watch.
Shit, it shouldn’t be that hard to come up with something that should make you $100 million opening weekend when you have a film with a built in fan base and is well known to many millions more.
More or less the comments read along the lines of “DC needs a plan and just can’t build a billion dollar property in a day”. To be that sounds like they need an all controlling auteur or executive that works with the directors, a la Kevin Feige at Marvel/Disney. I know Mark Millar is doing some consulting work, but there needs to be a creative director for the project that will map out and plan the stories for the standalones and actual JL movie. And as much as want Man of Steel to be good, I don’t think letting Nolan’s tone set the tempo for the series is the best. Ben Affleck was probably the best choice if you could get him to commit to overseeing the whole project.
I think Man of Steel is the crux of the whole project right now. If it succeeds, they keep things in the Nolan grounded universe. If not then, they have to scrap Superman and leave him to the end. You either reboot GL or make The Flash. As the most human of any JL member, they’re going to be the heart of the JL, sort of like Captain America. Then you bring in a new Batman, but no origin story. Make it either his first time running into Joker, or Two-Face and it ends with him learning more about these super powered beings with rings and red suits and maybe an allusion to Superman. Wonder Woman needs to be good, but not the crux of it. Kind of like Thor was. Thor didn’t have to be Iron Man, just serviceable, keep to the formula. They got a leading man that was strong and funny with a good director. So you cast WW well and pair her with a director that can be trusted. Then Superman is last because you want it far removed from Man of Steel. The Superman movie can be a pseudo-origin story as that’s pretty much the best part of the Supes story and the villain whether it’s Luthor, Zod, Brainiac, will lead into the JL villain. And if they want to imitate Marvel, then do a New Gods story about New Genesis to give them a space story like GotG.
Personally, I get Bruce Timm to spearhead this as the creative director and hope he can get Paul Dini or another DCAU writer or two to join him and lay down all the story lines
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I don’t agree with most of what this writer says. DC does best with standalone characters because they haven’t TRIED anything else. But you’re right about how they handled Hal Jordan. They, instead, tried to make him into a broke Tony Stark, which was b.s.
What I’d do is go with the conventional, larger than life Superman who seems invincible and wrecks every villain he comes into contact with, handily. Just when you think he’s God, when Darkseid shows, Supes gets totally owned, making DS look like an outrageous threat.
Much as I dig Hal, I’d go with John Stewart because Hal was kind of tainted thanks to the mediocre movie and the JLA film seems down a black guy so far. The rest of the players can get the Hawkeye treatment except Batman. Batman needs to be brooding, there when he feels like being there, opting to work alone, (concocting secret ways of taking the group down should they rebel) and, in no way, acting like Nolan’s Bats.
And above all…please do not attempt single movie origin stories. Just go balls out and give us the heroes in one film. One very expensive movie.
Justice League International. Booster Gold.
How anti-American can you get by making a really good Booster Gold flick? What an asshole.
Thought this ever since Arrow brought in Deadshot: The Suicide Squad would be a badass TV show. You get a bunch of criminals, with bombs implanted in their necks, give them one hour to do something that would be described as “suicidal” on a mission, and they pull it off in a blaze of ridiculousness. Rinse and repeat. It’s like Leverage, but with 500% more awesome.