In case you missed the 247th Republican presidential debate last night, Rick Perry placed his campaign on a Viking funeral pyre, lit the tinder, and then flung the whole thing over the horizon with a trebuchet the size of the Chrysler Building. His college transcript makes a lot more sense to me now.
[BuzzFeed]
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Does he know the president of Ubekibekistanstan?
A medievel artillery reference? This party is getting started ear-lay!
I don’t know about you, but I would totally buy a Rick Perry “Oops” bumper sticker.
Should have been praying for rain and a brain, Rick.
So who looked worse last night? PSU students, Rick Perry or Ashton Kutcher?
“oops” pretty much sums that up.
@LTF, PSU students.
I can’t wait for Bill Hader’s version of this disaster.
I live in Texas and here is a fun fact, in the most recent Texas Gubernatorial Race, Perry refused to debate his Democratic opponent. He still won by a pretty large majority. I am surrounded by morons.
remember, the primary voters are the same people keeping Nancy Grace on DWTS. I think he just locked the nomination!
he needs to leave the GOP race NOW!
I wonder how many debates they’ll need before they just suck it up and accept Romney.
It doesn’t matter how stupid Rick Perry looked or how bad Herman Cain is doing. The only question that matters to Republican primary voters is, “What can we do that will piss off liberals?”
Well, as a liberal, I’m here to say that a Perry-Cain presidential ticket would really make me mad. Oh, so mad. Please don’t do it. Please.
I wonder how many debates they’ll need before they just suck it up and accept Romney.
We’ve got a while yet. Newt will be the Not Romney of the Month next, and then we’ll get a couple weeks fluffing Ron Paul, and then, probably out of pity, a day and a half in which people pretend that Rick Santorum is viable.
Jon Hunstman will never get any serious attention though. He’s much too intelligent and sane.
And then shortly before the Republican National Convention next summer, everyone will grudgingly rally around John Kerry. Sorry, “Mitt Romney.”
It actually does make me mad that Huntsman is automatically dismissed because he’s a moderate. I don’t want to be a straight Democrat because they’re pretty much all pussies, but when I look and see how anyone who isn’t extreme right wing is treated in today’s GOP I realize this is my only option.
I think Sandusky would win in an primary election between himself and Huntsman.
Romney should just spend the remainder of the debates wearing dark sunglasses while a neon sign reading “DEAL WITH IT” flashes above his head.
While I can definitely see Herman Cain playing the role of keyboard cat.
Howard Dean: Ay, Rick? Welcome to the muthafuckin’ club ya punk ass bitch.
“The only question that matters to Republican primary voters is, “What can we do that will piss off liberals?””
– Revised: ONE of the only questions. The other question that matters to Republican voters is “how do you feel about men kissing men?” (See: Presidential election, 2004.)
This is exactly why he wouldn’t debate Bill White during last Gubernatorial election. When he did debate, he always pushed for it to be on Friday nights when most of the people who he counted on to vote for him would be watching Texas High School football.
Wait! That can’t be it for Perry! What about his best economic plan – sell Texas to China! [brettcottrell.blogspot.com]
Really, this is a great idea!
Weirdly I agree with Otto. Though I am not certain why Huntsman is dismissed out of hand. He isn’t liberal by any rational definition, has some nice libertarian leanings, and has a good track record as Governor of Utah. I blinked and missed his raging liberal tendencies.
@LastTexan I completely agree. I hate calling myself a Democrat because I’m instantly portrayed as some sort of whiny, self righteous candy ass, when in reality I’m merely self righteous.
The GOP is the Two and a Half Men of politics: The only people who support it are morons, and those who understand how to exploit it.
That being said, a brain fart on camera does not mean someone is stupid. I’m not going to miss Perry too much, though (surprisingly) he does have a relatively good record in criminal justice reform.
So is Ron Paul just gonna win this thing by default now?
I think this might finally be Gary Johnson’s chance!
“You see….the thing about business ethics…..it’s funny, when talking about business….uggahhhhhhh!!!!!!”
Oh, Huntsman isn’t liberal. He got high marks from Cato on tax policy and is a moderate on social issues — restrictions on abortion, but for civil unions (though not marriage) for gays, etc. He’s what used to be called a “moderate Republican” back when those people actually existed. But he agrees with the faggy scientists that climate change is real, so the base refuses to rally around him.
What’s really weird is how the media has totally written off Ron Paul. I think he’s nutters, but he actually has (or at least, had) considerable support in the primary polls, and the media just ignores him completely. Jon Stewart had a nice rundown of this, of media (Fox included) showing polls with Paul second and then saying “it’s Romney with Bachmann and Perry close behind!” like he didn’t even exist. Weird.
Oh and by the way, Jon Huntsman’s daughter are super fucking hot. But not total whores like the Bush girls.
The GOP is the Two and a Half Men of politics: The only people who support it are morons, and those who understand how to exploit it.
I want that crocheted on a throw pillow.
Seriously, I know there are some decent people out there who still vote Republican — from members of my family to good folks like UU here — but you all are camping out in a fucking asylum now. If he ran for president today, Ronald Reagan would be tarred and feathered by the base as a tax raising, amnesty granting, nuke abolishing, big spending RINO.
On that note, it’s worth re-reading John Rogers’ classic post “I Miss Republicans.” Hard to believe the party has gotten even crazier since then.
@Otto,
It is distressing that so much of this GOP primary has been a race to see who is most gleefully ignorant. I thought political philosophies were about finding the set of principles that provide best response to the world as it is, not magical thinking.
If the climate is changing (and the best evidence indicates it is), then we need to decide what to do about it, if anything. The answer is not necessarily a big government solution, but that is a different debate from saying “nah ah” over and over.
@Otto: Republicans don’t worship Ronald Reagan anymore. They worship “Ronald Reagan.”
@Tacos: This may be the rabblerouser in me, but I don’t think that this political climate will ever change until there’s an actual, legitimate, moderate third party that all Independents and sane middle ground Dems/Republicans can meet in and force the other two parties to contract from the extreme.
@Texans:
I meant the geological climate, but your point has merit. I personally would like to see a 4 party system. Social and economic small gov, social and economic big gov, and then the two midpoint parties.
@Tacos: Oh crap, I see what I did there. Sorry to take it on a tangent. This political climate really boils my potatoes.
He SHOULD shut down the three agencies…..
Legislative
Judicial
Executive
poonTASTIC got it right.
@Observer: I think there MAY be some Constitutional issues with that.
You THINK that would be it for Perry, but, people will see this as Perry showing he’s human. Also, what’s the deadline to run for presidency? I feel this is all a mirage and the Republicans are waiting for Sarah Palin to finally join (despite her saying she wouldn’t) the race. Republicans don’t want a mormon president, or so it would seem.
@Thatsamare: As Otto pointed out, Republicans don’t want a Mitt Romney president. It wouldn’t matter if Jesus endorsed him wearing John Smith’s magic underpants.
@Texans: To be fair, even if Romney was Baptist his record and general empty-suitedness would also make him unpopular with the GOP base. Primary voters want an exciting firebrand, general election voters want someone safe who they think won’t screw things up too bad.
@Thatsamare: I think it is too late to get on some of the early state ballots so I doubt Palin would make a run. Besides, the pay cut she would take would be pretty brutal.
The answer is not necessarily a big government solution, but that is a different debate from saying “nah ah” over and over.
Well said, Tacos.
In general, I think a mistake that many conservatives make when they try to understand liberals is that they feel we’re their mirror image and since they believe less government is always a good thing, that we somehow believe more government is always a good thing. But honestly, we don’t. We’re certainly willing to use the government to get shit done if that’s the best route, but having a big government isn’t a fetish in and of itself for us. If the free market and private industry can get the job done, terrific, let them do it.
And in this case, free-market conservatives actually came up with an elegant, efficient solution to the climate change crisis — cap and trade. It’s a market-based approach that would avoid the need for a heavy state regulatory presence, and still get the overall output of carbon emissions way way down. Liberals (and, well, anyone who breathes air) get the ends they want, and conservatives get the government’s nose out of it all. Win-win.
And while cap and trade is now regarded as some kind of liberal scheme, its conservative lineage is crystal clear. It was conceived in the Heritage Foundation during the Reagan era, promoted broadly by George HW Bush’s chief of staff, endorsed by George W Bush and even appeared as an official part of the 2008 campaign platform of McCain-Palin.
But as soon as Obama embraced it, conservatives decided it was some wild-eyed commie scheme. It’s their own idea, but because The Enemy has decided to say yes to it, they’ve suddenly decided to say no. (Same thing with health care, by the way. Obama’s plan is equal parts Romneycare and the 1993 alternative that Weicker put forth in the Senate. And yet because he agreed with them — and not with us liberals, trust me — it was denounced as a commie plot.)
If only Republicans cared more about their own ideals and less about sticking it to Democrats, we could get shit done in this country again.
Yeah, I think the Mormon issue is overblown. Sure, some evangelical voters think Mormons are members of a cult, but most religious conservatives have come to see Mormons (like Orrin Hatch) as reliable allies on the social issues they care about.
Like Tacos said, Romney just looks like an empty suit. His flip-flops make John Kerry look like a model of consistency and clarity, and I can’t blame the base for not getting excited about him. (Much in the same way the Democratic base never really got excited about John Kerry.)
…but because The Enemy has decided to say yes to it, they’ve suddenly decided to say no.
This is the problem with demonizing your enemy to the extreme that has happened over the past three years. When you make Obama the equivalent to a mix of Hitler/Satan/Sandusky, even if he agrees with YOUR OWN IDEAS they suddenly become toxic and treasonous.
@Otto and Texans
True, though this problem has been going on pre Obama, since the early republic. I blame the rise of party identity. Once people see themselves as part of Team Red or Team Blue first and foremost you can justify not thinking critically about issues and being self-critical. Just like I can justify dismissing the Colts cheating but will fight to the death* anyone defending the Patriots for camera-gate.
*Not really
@Tacos: YOU’RE A COLTS FAN!?!? MONSTER. YOU’RE WHY THIS COUNTRY IS BECOMING NAZI CHINA!!
No offense to Otto Man, but seeing him converse intelligently about politics makes my brain asplode. It’s probably the avatar and the fact I read most of your posts in a Kenny Powers voice, but nonetheless, good stuff.
Also, I completely agree with Texans that the only way the current political climate ever goes away would be with a legitimate (i.e. not crazy) third party candidate. Until both the DFL and GOP realize that the people they set out to please are pretty much the insane fringe of both sides of the coin and that most Americans fall somewhere near the middle, this refusal to cross party lines in order to please the party will never go away. In the end, it would lead to better candidates from both the Dems and Repubs if a 3rd party guy could make some noise and we wouldn’t see this parade of clowns the GOP is currently trotting out.
@Texans
/Mc Bain voice:
Commie Nazis
End Mc Bain voice/
Wow, I think that “oops” video is going to have some legs here on the internet. The one problem I have with Republicans threatening to simply shut down government organizations is that it doesn’t go hand in hand with their claim that government should be run more like a business. I believe this claim to be true – only businesses don’t simply cut core parts of their organizations. They assess their efficiency and make strategic downgrades/upgrades. The entire government’s efficiency should be put under the microscope and it should begin with Congress. If anyone hasn’t seen Warren Buffet’s plan for Congress, click here:
[ajosephproject.com]
A third-party candidate will never win at the national level and, even if he* did, he’d never get anything done because the two parties would still control Congress.
What this country really needs is proportional voting. Let smaller constituencies — from the real libertarians on the right to the actual liberals on the left — get a representative share of the power in Congress and they could act as a true force of balance between the two parties that dominate everything there. Make coalitions a necessity, and compromise will follow.
*They’ve all been “he”s so far. Prove me wrong, ladies. Prove me wrong.
DNBA: I’m arranging to have these posts transcribed as an audiobook, with the title “You’re Fucking Out, I’m Fucking Discussing Politics in a Civil and Reasonable Tone.”
Another way to introduce diversity into democracy would be to expand the House of Reps. to more accurately reflect traditional constituency size. More reps representing smaller constituencies would allow for finer granulation of political preferences and weaken the power of party leadership, which tends to be more extreme.
@Otto: “Chapter One: How to Dickslap Someone Across the Face, with Democracy.”
@Otto: anytime someone says “prove me wrong” I automatically add “children” to the end and subvocalize it in a Seymour Skinner voice. And then I think of Supernintendo Chalmers blaming Skinner for “class after class of ugly, ugly children.” And then people at work ask what I’m laughing about.
This has been a surprisingly measured and intelligent debate of political issues. What the hell is this, NPR?
Zack, that’s exactly what I was thinking as I wrote it. Love that scene.
And, no, this isn’t NPR. There’s no sad bassoon playing in the background and no promotion for the upcoming segment on traditional scrimshaw techniques of rural Vermont.
Tacos, that could do it, but more congresscritters would only make things more muddied.
What we really need is redistricting. In a lot of states, both parties got together to craft districts that are overwhelmingly red or blue, thus guaranteeing the re-election of incumbents and a general sloth in the system.
Of course, when we do get independents doing the district lines, the parties get all pissy, like in Arizona where the governor has threatened to impeach the head of the redistricting effort because of “gross misconduct” which apparently means “not being biased to my team.”
Tonight on UPROXPR: Otto Man Johnson-Cho and Texans McDuff-Estrada-Running Bull discuss whether corgi imports will destabilize the delicate ecosystem of [tiny town nobody cares about]. But first, some terrible world music.
@Otto:
Agree. There are some positive moves in many states towards having redistricting being handled by a non-partisan or at least bi-partisan redistricting commissions. No district should be reliably “safe”, parties should constantly have to compete for votes.
Well, I think we’ve all just solved politics, Tacos. Do you want to tell Washington, or should I?
@Otto
Lets let Matt do it, I look forward to the press conference with Corgis and Brie gifs.
Good point. He is a media professional, after all.
“Let smaller constituencies — from the real libertarians on the right to the actual liberals on the left — get a representative share of the power in Congress and they could act as a true force of balance between the two parties that dominate everything there.”
Isn’t this exactly what happened with The Tea Party? How’d letting a bunch of noobs run the show work out for the ridiculous debt ceiling debacle?
Jeez over 60 comments. What is this, a Best and Worst of Raw?
Sort of, Tim, but not exactly.
The Tea Party worked inside the GOP and effectively staged a takeover, hounding out the last remaining moderates. What I’m talking about is a system that lets those groups exist independently of each other, so it doesn’t have to be one or the other, but both.
If the Tea Party nuts had been outside the GOP tent during the debt ceiling debate, Boehner would’ve done what he originally said he’d do — increase the limit as the routine bit of housekeeping he knew it was, or perhaps getting some concessions but still making a compromise with everyone to his left.
But because he had the Tea Party surging inside his coalition, he had to dance to their tune.
UPROXPR = coffee spit on keyboard. Thanks.
Otto, I sort of disagree – Tim’s got it, but there wasn’t a distribution of power on the other side of the isle as well. It’s just that Ketchup hadn’t been let out of the bottle yet.
@Tacos_Gigante & Otto Man:
I’m looking forward to Huntsman in 2016. I don’t think it’s a mystery why he’s a nonfactor this year–when you get a slate of Republican candidates and only one of them will admit that there is such a thing as anthropogenic global warming, you don’t have to be very “liberal” to be the odd man out. Plus, I think the anti-Mormonists in the party are apoplectic enough with Mitt–having two Mormons in the mix is too much for them.
It’s not just wishful thinking on my part, but I think that 2012 will be the GOP’s Waterloo. Maybe the sane people left in the party will then realize that the Tea Party and the hard right ideologues are gonna kill the party, and they’ll bolt. What’s left of the GOP can mate with the blue-dog Democrats and have a cross-eyed conservative party, and the Rockefeller Republicans & pragmatist/progressive wing of the Democratic party can make their own centrist big tent, and leave the fringes of politics to the nutbags and gasbags.
OK, maybe I’m sniffing too much glue thinking that’s how a third party would come about. It’s more likely the GOP becomes the 21st-century Whig party, and the Democrats split into the pragmatists vs. the hippies.
Either way, we need someone to dig up Teddy Roosevelt’s corpse, stick it on a Bull Moose, and require that anyone wanting to run for office be shot first. If they survive the bullet–like zombie Teddy–they can run. If not, we burn their corpse for fuel.
@Lothar
I think if Obama wins in 2012 you are going to have folks like Huntsman, Mitch Daniels, Chris Christie, and maybe Bob McDonald, (i.e. fiscally conservative, hostile to public unions and excessive regulation, socially either moderate or intentionally disengaged) run and get traction. Obama is very vulnerable and if the GOP snatches defeat from the jaws of victory by nominating someone who falls flat on their face in the general election there is going to have to be some serious soul searching.
Run in 2016 I mean, little late to get in the race now.
Dammit. For once there’s an intelligent, civil political discussion and of course it happens on the only day I’m actually working while at work. I need to re-evaluate my priorities.
If failblog.com took human form…..